1 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:20,019 7-Adam-15, we're code 6 at the 911 call location. 2 00:00:20,020 --> 00:00:21,729 Any further contact from the distressed individual? 3 00:00:21,730 --> 00:00:23,064 Negative. 4 00:00:23,065 --> 00:00:24,607 Do you want me to start additional units? 5 00:00:24,608 --> 00:00:27,401 Uh, no. Give us a minute to scope it out first. 6 00:00:27,402 --> 00:00:29,529 You ready? - Do I have a choice? 7 00:00:29,530 --> 00:00:30,822 That's the spirit. 8 00:00:38,205 --> 00:00:39,664 LAPD. 9 00:00:39,665 --> 00:00:41,624 We've received a distress call from this location. 10 00:00:41,625 --> 00:00:44,210 We are making entry. 11 00:00:46,213 --> 00:00:47,713 Ooh. 12 00:00:51,051 --> 00:00:53,427 Oh. Do you feel that? 13 00:00:53,428 --> 00:00:54,428 Feel what? 14 00:00:54,429 --> 00:00:56,597 Ah, something evil's in here. 15 00:00:56,598 --> 00:00:58,392 Well, sure smells like it. 16 00:01:06,024 --> 00:01:09,652 I can't die. 17 00:01:09,653 --> 00:01:14,115 Won't let me die. 18 00:01:14,116 --> 00:01:16,576 Police. Show yourself. 19 00:01:19,121 --> 00:01:21,706 I can't die. It's inside of me. 20 00:01:21,707 --> 00:01:24,083 It won't let me die. - Don't touch that, all right? 21 00:01:24,084 --> 00:01:25,751 Just--call this in. Call it in. 22 00:01:25,752 --> 00:01:28,004 I need an RA to my location for a stabbing victim. 23 00:01:28,005 --> 00:01:29,588 So I usually sit right next to camera 24 00:01:29,589 --> 00:01:30,840 to keep the eyeline tight. 25 00:01:30,841 --> 00:01:32,508 Then I'll just sit on the other side. 26 00:01:32,509 --> 00:01:33,843 No, because then you'll split his look. 27 00:01:33,844 --> 00:01:35,845 - I don't think it matters. - Oh, hey. Hi. 28 00:01:35,846 --> 00:01:37,680 Thanks--thanks again for sitting down with me. 29 00:01:37,681 --> 00:01:40,308 - Us. - What? Oh, right, us. 30 00:01:40,309 --> 00:01:42,476 Uh, why are you filming? 31 00:01:42,477 --> 00:01:44,145 Oh, I just wanted to document the new partnership. 32 00:01:44,146 --> 00:01:45,813 Abigail was very excited. 33 00:01:45,814 --> 00:01:47,690 - It's not a partnership. - It's totally a partnership. 34 00:01:47,691 --> 00:01:49,900 The judge was very clear. - The judge? 35 00:01:49,901 --> 00:01:51,277 My name is Abigail Tierney. 36 00:01:51,278 --> 00:01:53,321 I'm currently trapped inside a secret lab 37 00:01:53,322 --> 00:01:54,697 at Westview Psychiatric. 38 00:01:54,698 --> 00:01:57,283 All attempts at escape have proven fruitless. 39 00:01:57,284 --> 00:01:59,618 I may have inadvertently used some of Abigail's footage 40 00:01:59,619 --> 00:02:02,580 in my last documentary without gaining the proper permissions. 41 00:02:02,581 --> 00:02:05,791 Translation, he stole my intellectual property, 42 00:02:05,792 --> 00:02:08,251 I sued, and the judge gave him a choice-- 43 00:02:08,252 --> 00:02:10,338 pay me 200 thou in damages or give me equal partnership 44 00:02:10,339 --> 00:02:11,797 in his next project. 45 00:02:11,798 --> 00:02:13,215 He never said equal, but you know what? 46 00:02:13,216 --> 00:02:14,925 Never mind. 47 00:02:14,926 --> 00:02:16,761 Let's focus on the story that we're here to tell. 48 00:02:16,762 --> 00:02:18,055 Have a seat. 49 00:02:19,473 --> 00:02:21,849 Perhaps the most shocking case of murder 50 00:02:21,850 --> 00:02:23,434 and mayhem we've ever seen. 51 00:02:23,435 --> 00:02:24,810 Would you say that's a fair assessment? 52 00:02:24,811 --> 00:02:26,646 Um-- 53 00:02:26,647 --> 00:02:28,272 No, no, stay--stay back. Stay back. Stay back. 54 00:02:28,273 --> 00:02:29,607 You don't understand. - OK, relax. 55 00:02:29,608 --> 00:02:31,942 OK, we're trying to help you. Who stabbed you? 56 00:02:31,943 --> 00:02:33,944 I stabbed myself. 57 00:02:33,945 --> 00:02:36,697 It's inside of me. I've tried everything else. 58 00:02:36,698 --> 00:02:37,907 I can't kill it. 59 00:02:37,908 --> 00:02:40,534 I can't die. See? 60 00:02:40,535 --> 00:02:42,119 No, don't pull that-- don't pull it out! 61 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:43,413 Oh, God. 62 00:02:45,832 --> 00:02:47,083 Oh, he died instantly. 63 00:02:47,084 --> 00:02:49,502 I mean, the wound was fatal. 64 00:02:49,503 --> 00:02:52,380 You can't stab yourself in the heart and survive. 65 00:02:52,381 --> 00:02:55,591 But the way the knife was lodged, 66 00:02:55,592 --> 00:02:56,675 he wasn't bleeding. 67 00:02:56,676 --> 00:02:58,427 Once he pulled it out-- 68 00:02:58,428 --> 00:03:01,055 - It was blood fountain city. - Not exactly, but-- 69 00:03:01,056 --> 00:03:03,265 As shocking as that was, it was far from 70 00:03:03,266 --> 00:03:04,892 the most shocking thing you found. 71 00:03:04,893 --> 00:03:06,227 Oh, we should get him to say that 72 00:03:06,228 --> 00:03:07,728 to set up the opening credits. 73 00:03:07,729 --> 00:03:09,480 That's not--we-- we don't put words 74 00:03:09,481 --> 00:03:11,233 in people's mouths. It's a documentary. 75 00:03:13,652 --> 00:03:16,821 Yeah, it was, uh, straight-up crazy. 76 00:03:18,198 --> 00:03:20,074 - You don't think-- - There's a body in there. 77 00:03:21,827 --> 00:03:23,035 May have finally found it. 78 00:03:24,955 --> 00:03:26,288 Please don't kill us. 79 00:03:26,289 --> 00:03:27,998 We will join your cult. 80 00:03:27,999 --> 00:03:29,750 - Oh. - Oh, God. 81 00:03:29,751 --> 00:03:32,128 You arrived on scene as the sergeant's supervisor? 82 00:03:32,129 --> 00:03:33,421 Yes. 83 00:03:33,422 --> 00:03:35,548 I got there before the ambulance, 84 00:03:35,549 --> 00:03:37,425 not that there was any aid they could have rendered. 85 00:03:37,426 --> 00:03:38,968 Is there a reason you didn't want us 86 00:03:38,969 --> 00:03:40,469 to interview you with Tim? 87 00:03:40,470 --> 00:03:41,637 What? 88 00:03:41,638 --> 00:03:43,222 No. We're just-- 89 00:03:43,223 --> 00:03:45,057 just shaking it up. 90 00:03:45,058 --> 00:03:46,434 Let's-- let's-- let's stay focused. 91 00:03:46,435 --> 00:03:48,227 Were you the first to recognize the victim? 92 00:03:48,228 --> 00:03:50,354 Uh, sort of. 93 00:03:50,355 --> 00:03:53,232 I thought I knew his face, but it wasn't until 94 00:03:53,233 --> 00:03:54,525 we ran his prints that we got a name. 95 00:03:54,526 --> 00:03:57,486 Rich Rowley was retired LAPD. 96 00:03:57,487 --> 00:03:59,447 He had been with the department for 30 years 97 00:03:59,448 --> 00:04:01,031 and was a little bit of a legend, 98 00:04:01,032 --> 00:04:04,326 mostly because he made a series of training videos 99 00:04:04,327 --> 00:04:07,913 from the mid-'90s till his retirement in 2015, 100 00:04:07,914 --> 00:04:11,876 which by modern standards, are a little cringe. 101 00:04:11,877 --> 00:04:13,794 Hey, everybody. Rich Rowley here 102 00:04:13,795 --> 00:04:15,921 with another installment of... 103 00:04:18,007 --> 00:04:20,259 Now, today, we're gonna be talking about 104 00:04:20,260 --> 00:04:22,928 proper cuffing technique. 105 00:04:22,929 --> 00:04:24,054 Excuse me, officer? 106 00:04:24,055 --> 00:04:26,307 I hurt my shoulder at the gym. 107 00:04:26,308 --> 00:04:28,185 Would you mind cuffing me in front? 108 00:04:29,603 --> 00:04:32,646 Pretty lady like you, 109 00:04:32,647 --> 00:04:34,732 what's the worst that could happen? 110 00:04:36,568 --> 00:04:39,445 - Thank you. - You're welcome. 111 00:04:41,865 --> 00:04:43,365 Rich was a trip. 112 00:04:43,366 --> 00:04:46,368 The life of the party, at least early in his career. 113 00:04:46,369 --> 00:04:48,120 Then as the years went on, 114 00:04:48,121 --> 00:04:51,832 he became a little, uh, crazy. 115 00:04:51,833 --> 00:04:53,250 Crazy how? 116 00:04:53,251 --> 00:04:55,169 He was deep into conspiracy theories. 117 00:04:55,170 --> 00:04:58,839 He had a real thing for cults and cabals. 118 00:04:58,840 --> 00:05:01,217 To be fair, Los Angeles does have a pretty dark history. 119 00:05:01,218 --> 00:05:03,803 But Rich took it to the next level, 120 00:05:03,804 --> 00:05:05,221 and his training videos got more 121 00:05:05,222 --> 00:05:06,639 and more intense because of it. 122 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:08,349 We finally got around to updating the videos 123 00:05:08,350 --> 00:05:11,268 this last year, but that caused quite a controversy 124 00:05:11,269 --> 00:05:12,686 with some of the older officers. 125 00:05:12,687 --> 00:05:15,064 They said we were being insensitive. 126 00:05:15,065 --> 00:05:17,650 Why would updating training videos be insensitive? 127 00:05:17,651 --> 00:05:20,194 Even three years on, a lot of his friends 128 00:05:20,195 --> 00:05:22,613 were still mourning his death and saw the videos as a way 129 00:05:22,614 --> 00:05:24,990 to keep his memory alive. - I'm sorry. 130 00:05:24,991 --> 00:05:26,283 I thought Rich died six months ago. 131 00:05:26,284 --> 00:05:28,285 - Yeah. - He did. 132 00:05:28,286 --> 00:05:29,703 I'm talking about the first time. 133 00:05:29,704 --> 00:05:31,455 Divers are searching for 134 00:05:31,456 --> 00:05:32,998 any signs of retired 135 00:05:32,999 --> 00:05:36,001 Los Angeles police officer Richard Rowley 136 00:05:36,002 --> 00:05:37,920 after a sailing trip gone wrong. 137 00:05:37,921 --> 00:05:40,422 Coast Guard responded to a distress call 138 00:05:40,423 --> 00:05:42,383 this morning from Rowley's wife, 139 00:05:42,384 --> 00:05:44,677 who says the 55-year-old fell overboard 140 00:05:44,678 --> 00:05:46,679 after the sailboat he was captaining 141 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,640 was struck by a rogue wave. 142 00:05:49,641 --> 00:05:51,809 Any time someone disappears from a boating trip, 143 00:05:51,810 --> 00:05:53,352 it automatically sets off alarm bells. 144 00:05:53,353 --> 00:05:54,979 Why is that? 145 00:05:54,980 --> 00:05:56,814 It's just an ideal place to cover up a crime. 146 00:05:56,815 --> 00:05:58,566 Throw a body overboard, weigh it down, 147 00:05:58,567 --> 00:06:00,442 the likelihood of us recovering it before 148 00:06:00,443 --> 00:06:02,486 it becomes fish food is low. 149 00:06:02,487 --> 00:06:05,155 And circumstances were suspicious. 150 00:06:05,156 --> 00:06:07,491 By all accounts, Rich was a skilled sailor, 151 00:06:07,492 --> 00:06:09,952 it was a calm day, and the only witness to his demise 152 00:06:09,953 --> 00:06:13,163 was Darla Phillips, his on again, off again 153 00:06:13,164 --> 00:06:15,207 girlfriend, who he married five days prior. 154 00:06:15,208 --> 00:06:16,875 So you suspected foul play? 155 00:06:19,588 --> 00:06:21,922 Not necessarily, but we couldn't rule it out. 156 00:06:21,923 --> 00:06:23,674 Why wasn't Rich wearing a life vest? 157 00:06:23,675 --> 00:06:26,885 He never did. He was a strong swimmer. 158 00:06:26,886 --> 00:06:29,138 He must have hit his head when he fell. 159 00:06:29,139 --> 00:06:30,890 Why didn't you jump in after him? 160 00:06:30,891 --> 00:06:33,434 - I'm scared of dark water. - Dark water? 161 00:06:33,435 --> 00:06:35,894 Water you can't see the bottom of. 162 00:06:35,895 --> 00:06:37,980 Just blackness 163 00:06:37,981 --> 00:06:40,316 with God knows what lurking below. 164 00:06:40,317 --> 00:06:42,902 You stand to inherit Rich's entire police pension. 165 00:06:42,903 --> 00:06:44,320 That's quite a bit of money. 166 00:06:44,321 --> 00:06:46,238 How dare you? 167 00:06:46,239 --> 00:06:50,618 I just watched the love of my life die in front of me. 168 00:06:50,619 --> 00:06:52,536 We don't know that for sure yet. 169 00:06:52,537 --> 00:06:54,663 They haven't found his body. 170 00:06:54,664 --> 00:06:58,792 Unless you know more that you're not telling us. 171 00:06:58,793 --> 00:07:00,544 Go to hell! 172 00:07:00,545 --> 00:07:02,254 This interview is over. 173 00:07:02,255 --> 00:07:04,757 Did it ever occur to you that Rich might still be alive? 174 00:07:04,758 --> 00:07:06,675 As we said, we couldn't rule anything out, 175 00:07:06,676 --> 00:07:10,220 but there was no evidence that he'd faked his death. 176 00:07:10,221 --> 00:07:11,847 Until he turned up dead again. 177 00:07:11,848 --> 00:07:14,433 Needless to say, we had a few more questions for Darla. 178 00:07:14,434 --> 00:07:16,810 Helping someone fake their death isn't a crime. 179 00:07:16,811 --> 00:07:18,228 I checked. - You're right, 180 00:07:18,229 --> 00:07:20,022 but profiting off of that death, 181 00:07:20,023 --> 00:07:21,857 collecting Rich's pension and his life insurance, 182 00:07:21,858 --> 00:07:23,817 that's fraud. 183 00:07:23,818 --> 00:07:26,111 Not to mention the resources that were wasted 184 00:07:26,112 --> 00:07:27,363 trying to recover his body. 185 00:07:27,364 --> 00:07:29,907 You could be facing some serious charges. 186 00:07:29,908 --> 00:07:32,159 So tell us. 187 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,079 Why did Rich want to fake his death? 188 00:07:35,413 --> 00:07:39,333 After Rich retired, he kind of fell apart. 189 00:07:39,334 --> 00:07:43,253 His drinking got worse, and his paranoia. 190 00:07:43,254 --> 00:07:45,756 He was always a little intense, 191 00:07:45,757 --> 00:07:48,217 but it started to get scary. 192 00:07:48,218 --> 00:07:51,553 He covered all his windows with newspapers, 193 00:07:51,554 --> 00:07:55,224 started writing down the license plates of passing cars. 194 00:07:55,225 --> 00:07:57,142 What was he so afraid of? 195 00:07:57,143 --> 00:07:59,895 He said there was this group, like, 196 00:07:59,896 --> 00:08:05,067 a secret society of dangerous and powerful people. 197 00:08:05,068 --> 00:08:06,944 He'd been on to them for years. 198 00:08:06,945 --> 00:08:08,737 He said that they found out about him, 199 00:08:08,738 --> 00:08:10,906 that he was in danger because of it. 200 00:08:10,907 --> 00:08:13,867 It was too much for me, so I broke up with him. 201 00:08:13,868 --> 00:08:17,871 And then a year later, he showed up on my doorstep 202 00:08:17,872 --> 00:08:21,000 and asked me to help him fake his death 203 00:08:21,001 --> 00:08:23,585 in return for his pension. 204 00:08:23,586 --> 00:08:25,087 I needed the money. 205 00:08:25,088 --> 00:08:27,965 So we got married, and we did the deed, 206 00:08:27,966 --> 00:08:29,925 and I never saw him again. 207 00:08:29,926 --> 00:08:33,846 So you have no idea why there was a coffin in his garage? 208 00:08:33,847 --> 00:08:35,346 We'll probably hold this piece of the puzzle 209 00:08:35,347 --> 00:08:37,099 until the end of the first act, you know, 210 00:08:37,100 --> 00:08:38,307 hit the audience with a twist when 211 00:08:38,308 --> 00:08:40,310 it's dramatically expedient. - Yeah. 212 00:08:40,311 --> 00:08:41,478 Seems manipulative. 213 00:08:41,479 --> 00:08:42,980 All good storytelling is, so. 214 00:08:42,981 --> 00:08:45,607 Just tell us about finding the coffin. 215 00:08:45,608 --> 00:08:49,486 So once I arrived, and we secured the crime scene, 216 00:08:49,487 --> 00:08:51,280 we cleared the rest of the house, 217 00:08:51,281 --> 00:08:52,115 and then we moved on to the garage. 218 00:08:56,619 --> 00:08:57,619 Oh. 219 00:08:57,620 --> 00:08:59,538 Oh, you don't think there's-- 220 00:08:59,539 --> 00:09:02,833 That there's a body in there? I absolutely do. 221 00:09:02,834 --> 00:09:06,462 OK, are we gonna open it? 'Cause I don't wanna open it. 222 00:09:06,463 --> 00:09:07,921 What do you think? 223 00:09:07,922 --> 00:09:10,299 I mean, it's clearly been dug up. 224 00:09:10,300 --> 00:09:12,468 Given the state of the coffin, it's clearly been 225 00:09:12,469 --> 00:09:13,927 underground for a few years. 226 00:09:13,928 --> 00:09:16,680 If there is a body in there, it's likely long dead. 227 00:09:16,681 --> 00:09:19,308 - Unless-- - Unless what? 228 00:09:19,309 --> 00:09:22,269 Unless he put a fresh victim in an old coffin. 229 00:09:24,731 --> 00:09:26,648 OK, got it. 230 00:09:26,649 --> 00:09:28,067 - Got it? - Yep. 231 00:09:28,068 --> 00:09:30,235 Oh. Oh, God. 232 00:09:37,494 --> 00:09:38,911 The body belonged to a 54-year-old truck driver 233 00:09:38,912 --> 00:09:40,913 named Marcus Ford, 234 00:09:40,914 --> 00:09:42,748 who was the victim of an unsolved homicide 235 00:09:42,749 --> 00:09:44,333 back in 2020. 236 00:09:44,334 --> 00:09:45,375 How was he killed? 237 00:09:45,376 --> 00:09:47,377 Uh, he was stabbed in the heart. 238 00:09:47,378 --> 00:09:49,546 Just like Rich. 239 00:09:49,547 --> 00:09:52,174 Wait, Rich murdered Marcus Ford. 240 00:09:52,175 --> 00:09:54,134 Did I just solve the case? - No. 241 00:09:54,135 --> 00:09:58,013 We were able to alibi Rich out. 242 00:09:58,014 --> 00:10:00,265 He was hospitalized with double pneumonia the day Marcus died. 243 00:10:00,266 --> 00:10:02,476 Medical records say he was so weak that, 244 00:10:02,477 --> 00:10:04,144 uh, he could barely get out of bed. 245 00:10:04,145 --> 00:10:05,687 Or that's what he wanted you to think. 246 00:10:05,688 --> 00:10:06,980 Moving on. 247 00:10:06,981 --> 00:10:08,357 Digging up a body's no easy task. 248 00:10:08,358 --> 00:10:10,067 Why would Rich go to all that trouble? 249 00:10:10,068 --> 00:10:12,402 Initially, we thought it was simply 250 00:10:12,403 --> 00:10:15,823 the demented act of a clearly disturbed mind, 251 00:10:15,824 --> 00:10:17,658 and in some ways, it was. 252 00:10:17,659 --> 00:10:20,160 But then we found the tattoo. 253 00:10:20,161 --> 00:10:21,995 At first, it was a little bit difficult 254 00:10:21,996 --> 00:10:23,914 to make out exactly what it was. 255 00:10:23,915 --> 00:10:27,334 A half a decade of decomp does a number on the skin. 256 00:10:27,335 --> 00:10:29,920 But when we look back at the case file, 257 00:10:29,921 --> 00:10:32,297 there was a photo of it taken during the original autopsy. 258 00:10:32,298 --> 00:10:33,674 That's actually kind of sick. 259 00:10:33,675 --> 00:10:35,801 I wonder if there's a way to track down the artist. 260 00:10:35,802 --> 00:10:36,969 I've been meaning to start the sleeve 261 00:10:36,970 --> 00:10:38,846 on my other arm, like a-- 262 00:10:38,847 --> 00:10:40,347 To my collaborator's point, 263 00:10:40,348 --> 00:10:42,432 lots of people have tattoos. 264 00:10:42,433 --> 00:10:44,726 What was it about this one that jumped out at you? 265 00:10:44,727 --> 00:10:47,980 Well, something about it was familiar to both of us, 266 00:10:47,981 --> 00:10:49,815 but we couldn't place it. 267 00:10:49,816 --> 00:10:53,277 So we started asking around, and the answer couldn't come 268 00:10:53,278 --> 00:10:56,196 from a more unlikely place. 269 00:10:56,197 --> 00:10:58,073 I watched the Rich Rowley training videos 270 00:10:58,074 --> 00:11:00,534 more than any person alive, 271 00:11:00,535 --> 00:11:04,079 so I recognized the symbol immediately. 272 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,290 Sometimes, citizens panic when 273 00:11:06,291 --> 00:11:08,959 they can't get in touch with their friends or loved ones. 274 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,003 That is why we always advise the public 275 00:11:11,004 --> 00:11:14,423 to wait 24 hours before reporting someone missing. 276 00:11:14,424 --> 00:11:16,383 While most missing person reports stem 277 00:11:16,384 --> 00:11:18,093 from a lapse in communication, 278 00:11:18,094 --> 00:11:19,970 every once in a while, you'll encounter 279 00:11:19,971 --> 00:11:22,556 a true, workable case. 280 00:11:22,557 --> 00:11:25,350 Officer, help. My sister is missing. 281 00:11:25,351 --> 00:11:26,810 When's the last time you saw her? 282 00:11:26,811 --> 00:11:28,478 Last night at the bar. 283 00:11:28,479 --> 00:11:30,856 Her boyfriend said she never made it home. 284 00:11:30,857 --> 00:11:34,693 You always wanna take a report like this one seriously. 285 00:11:34,694 --> 00:11:37,279 So Rich hid the same symbol in his training videos 286 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,656 that was tattooed on the body of a murder victim. 287 00:11:39,657 --> 00:11:41,867 What did you think that meant? 288 00:11:41,868 --> 00:11:44,119 Uh, I don't know. 289 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:44,870 I can't believe I'm saying this, 290 00:11:44,871 --> 00:11:46,079 but Smitty was right. 291 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,081 In lesson 187, the tattoo symbol 292 00:11:48,082 --> 00:11:49,958 was hidden in the background, 293 00:11:49,959 --> 00:11:51,668 although the instructions 294 00:11:51,669 --> 00:11:53,962 to wait 24 hours before reporting a missing person 295 00:11:53,963 --> 00:11:55,881 are wildly outdated. 296 00:11:55,882 --> 00:11:57,633 Anyways, it got me thinking. 297 00:11:57,634 --> 00:12:00,802 What if Rich put messages in other videos? 298 00:12:00,803 --> 00:12:02,054 What kind of messages? 299 00:12:02,055 --> 00:12:03,513 I'm not totally sure yet. 300 00:12:03,514 --> 00:12:05,557 I binged every single Rich training video 301 00:12:05,558 --> 00:12:06,558 I could get my hands on. 302 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:08,101 Yeah, it's been a fun few nights. 303 00:12:08,102 --> 00:12:10,020 And I did find a few other possible leads, 304 00:12:10,021 --> 00:12:11,355 but there's a problem. 305 00:12:11,356 --> 00:12:12,648 The department's archive is incomplete, 306 00:12:12,649 --> 00:12:14,066 and without all of the videos, 307 00:12:14,067 --> 00:12:15,233 I can't be sure that I'm not missing 308 00:12:15,234 --> 00:12:16,652 a vital piece of information. 309 00:12:16,653 --> 00:12:18,528 So what happened to the missing videos? 310 00:12:18,529 --> 00:12:20,697 So when the training topics and the videos 311 00:12:20,698 --> 00:12:24,326 become outdated because of new laws or protocols, 312 00:12:24,327 --> 00:12:26,036 the department has to make new ones, 313 00:12:26,037 --> 00:12:28,497 and obsolete videos are supposed to be digitized 314 00:12:28,498 --> 00:12:31,708 and archived for historical record. 315 00:12:31,709 --> 00:12:34,086 But Rich's were just gone. 316 00:12:34,087 --> 00:12:35,712 Gone as in destroyed? 317 00:12:35,713 --> 00:12:38,340 - Like a cover-up? - No one's saying that. 318 00:12:38,341 --> 00:12:40,550 Most likely, it was a human error. 319 00:12:40,551 --> 00:12:43,178 You know, someone got lazy, didn't archive them. 320 00:12:43,179 --> 00:12:45,013 I tried reaching out to the production company 321 00:12:45,014 --> 00:12:48,183 that made the videos to see if they had any copies left. 322 00:12:48,184 --> 00:12:51,228 Bad news is they went out of business a few years back 323 00:12:51,229 --> 00:12:53,105 and auctioned off all their equipment. 324 00:12:53,106 --> 00:12:55,190 What's the good news? 325 00:12:55,191 --> 00:12:58,485 Well, I managed to track down the auction logs, 326 00:12:58,486 --> 00:13:00,487 and I actually know the person who purchased 327 00:13:00,488 --> 00:13:02,948 the studio's old hard drives. 328 00:13:02,949 --> 00:13:06,201 Careful, I'm very ticklish, like the Pillsbury Doughboy. 329 00:13:06,202 --> 00:13:07,202 Same. 330 00:13:07,203 --> 00:13:09,246 I hear it's a sign of intelligence. 331 00:13:09,247 --> 00:13:10,539 - Is that a fact? - Yep. 332 00:13:10,540 --> 00:13:13,166 Then I am smart as the dickens. 333 00:13:13,167 --> 00:13:14,918 So you purchased hard drives 334 00:13:14,919 --> 00:13:16,753 from Speak Now Studios? 335 00:13:16,754 --> 00:13:18,839 Yeah. Dropout was still in its infancy. 336 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,133 I was building the company from the ground up. 337 00:13:21,134 --> 00:13:23,385 We had to be smart about how we were spending our money. 338 00:13:23,386 --> 00:13:26,054 We bought a huge amount of equipment secondhand-- 339 00:13:26,055 --> 00:13:27,973 hard drives, cameras, wigs. 340 00:13:27,974 --> 00:13:31,018 Wait, you bought second-hand wigs? 341 00:13:31,019 --> 00:13:32,310 Give them a little shake before we put them on. 342 00:13:32,311 --> 00:13:33,770 That's awesome. 343 00:13:33,771 --> 00:13:35,022 Do you still have that wig connect? 344 00:13:35,023 --> 00:13:37,649 'Cause I'd love a referral. My guy is-- 345 00:13:37,650 --> 00:13:39,526 Back on track. 346 00:13:39,527 --> 00:13:41,778 The hard drives you bought contain police training videos. 347 00:13:41,779 --> 00:13:43,363 Did you happen to watch any of them? 348 00:13:43,364 --> 00:13:45,365 Of course. Rich Rowley, right? 349 00:13:45,366 --> 00:13:47,367 We were obsessed with those videos. 350 00:13:47,368 --> 00:13:50,078 We probably watched them, like, a dozen times. 351 00:13:50,079 --> 00:13:52,748 I'm Rich Rowley, and this is "Survive the Streets." 352 00:13:52,749 --> 00:13:54,374 Oh, that's great. 353 00:13:54,375 --> 00:13:55,751 Vic can do the best impression. 354 00:13:55,752 --> 00:13:57,669 Do you think you'd be able to make copies for us? 355 00:13:57,670 --> 00:14:00,047 I totally would, 356 00:14:00,048 --> 00:14:01,339 but I can't because 357 00:14:01,340 --> 00:14:03,050 we wiped all of those hard drives 358 00:14:03,051 --> 00:14:04,634 to use as servers months ago. 359 00:14:04,635 --> 00:14:06,511 Sorry I couldn't be of more help. 360 00:14:06,512 --> 00:14:10,348 You'll still feature this interview, right? 361 00:14:10,349 --> 00:14:11,933 - Yeah. - Yeah, probably not. 362 00:14:11,934 --> 00:14:13,727 Wait, you said you and the Dropout crew 363 00:14:13,728 --> 00:14:16,480 watched the video, like, dozens of times, right? 364 00:14:16,481 --> 00:14:18,607 Yes, sometimes on an edible, mostly sober. 365 00:14:18,608 --> 00:14:20,525 I have an idea. 366 00:14:20,526 --> 00:14:21,985 OK, so then he'd be like, don't forget to check 367 00:14:21,986 --> 00:14:23,487 the closet or you'll die. So I don't know. 368 00:14:23,488 --> 00:14:25,197 I think it's a little bit more like, 369 00:14:25,198 --> 00:14:26,990 like, if you forget to check the closet, 370 00:14:26,991 --> 00:14:29,701 Freddy, Jason, and Chucky will rip off your scrote! 371 00:14:29,702 --> 00:14:31,453 OK, I think there's less foot stuff. 372 00:14:31,454 --> 00:14:33,038 I feel like he's like-- 373 00:14:33,039 --> 00:14:35,040 and then your crazy methy ex-girlfriend 374 00:14:35,041 --> 00:14:37,250 who's been hiding in the hallway closet 375 00:14:37,251 --> 00:14:39,127 will chainsaw your face when you get home 376 00:14:39,128 --> 00:14:41,004 because you forgot to clear the room! 377 00:14:41,005 --> 00:14:42,005 - Clear the room! - Clear the room! 378 00:14:42,006 --> 00:14:43,590 Check the room. 379 00:14:43,591 --> 00:14:45,550 I think he was so close to pulling out his gun-- 380 00:14:45,551 --> 00:14:47,302 - What are you guys doing? - That's a great question. 381 00:14:47,303 --> 00:14:48,929 They're reenacting the police training videos 382 00:14:48,930 --> 00:14:50,263 since you guys wiped them off your hard drive. 383 00:14:50,264 --> 00:14:51,932 Oh, the Rich Rowley ones. 384 00:14:51,933 --> 00:14:53,433 Those are so funny. - Right. 385 00:14:53,434 --> 00:14:54,935 I actually stole one of the hard drives 386 00:14:54,936 --> 00:14:56,144 so I could watch it when I'm in the tub. 387 00:14:56,145 --> 00:14:57,312 You talking about your tub again? 388 00:14:57,313 --> 00:14:58,480 - Say what? - A little self-care. 389 00:14:58,481 --> 00:15:00,232 You know, trying to relax a little more. 390 00:15:00,233 --> 00:15:02,317 It's not working. - Can we have it? 391 00:15:02,318 --> 00:15:03,944 If you want to borrow it, I could, you know. 392 00:15:03,945 --> 00:15:05,404 No, I think this is actually working great. 393 00:15:05,405 --> 00:15:07,906 - I mean, you could. OK. - Keep this up. 394 00:15:07,907 --> 00:15:08,782 - Riffing. - Clearing the room. 395 00:15:08,783 --> 00:15:10,117 Help us. 396 00:15:10,118 --> 00:15:11,368 OK, I finally finished watching 397 00:15:11,369 --> 00:15:12,953 all of the Rich training videos, 398 00:15:12,954 --> 00:15:14,412 and there is a lot. 399 00:15:14,413 --> 00:15:17,499 Um, take lesson 277-- 400 00:15:20,753 --> 00:15:22,504 My azaleas! 401 00:15:22,505 --> 00:15:26,133 A cold case where victim Azalea Robinson was found 402 00:15:26,134 --> 00:15:27,968 stabbed near a ski resort. 403 00:15:27,969 --> 00:15:29,344 - You're kidding. - No. 404 00:15:29,345 --> 00:15:32,347 And in lesson 290, Rich is holding a folder 405 00:15:32,348 --> 00:15:34,141 with a Post-It note on the back with a brown star 406 00:15:34,142 --> 00:15:35,475 drawn on it. - I'm lost. 407 00:15:35,476 --> 00:15:38,228 Right, so I looked up the cold cases 408 00:15:38,229 --> 00:15:39,938 to see if there were any victims with names 409 00:15:39,939 --> 00:15:41,857 like Star or Stella, 410 00:15:41,858 --> 00:15:43,358 and there was one hit, 411 00:15:43,359 --> 00:15:44,860 Stella Brown, 412 00:15:44,861 --> 00:15:47,154 also found stabbed in the chest. 413 00:15:47,155 --> 00:15:49,114 In all, Lucy found clues pointing 414 00:15:49,115 --> 00:15:51,533 to seven different cold cases. 415 00:15:51,534 --> 00:15:53,535 But why was Rich hiding the names of murder victims 416 00:15:53,536 --> 00:15:55,370 in police training videos? 417 00:15:55,371 --> 00:15:56,621 Based on what we could piece together, 418 00:15:56,622 --> 00:15:58,915 he believed he had stumbled upon a conspiracy-- 419 00:15:58,916 --> 00:16:01,251 a series of connected murders committed by person 420 00:16:01,252 --> 00:16:02,878 or persons unknown. 421 00:16:02,879 --> 00:16:04,671 If that were the case, why not just report 422 00:16:04,672 --> 00:16:07,048 his suspicion? He was a cop for 30 years. 423 00:16:07,049 --> 00:16:09,551 Well, Rich had a bit of a reputation 424 00:16:09,552 --> 00:16:14,097 within the department for, shall we say, magical thinking. 425 00:16:14,098 --> 00:16:17,934 So unfortunately, his theory was dismissed out of hand. 426 00:16:17,935 --> 00:16:19,895 But why did he think the murders were connected? 427 00:16:19,896 --> 00:16:21,396 Well, for starters, they were all stabbed 428 00:16:21,397 --> 00:16:23,523 in the chest, but more importantly, 429 00:16:23,524 --> 00:16:25,150 each victim was found with a penny 430 00:16:25,151 --> 00:16:26,610 either in or on their person. 431 00:16:26,611 --> 00:16:27,944 What do you mean "in"? 432 00:16:27,945 --> 00:16:30,071 One had a penny in her stomach. 433 00:16:30,072 --> 00:16:32,240 Another had one shoved up his nose. 434 00:16:32,241 --> 00:16:33,575 Stella Brown lucked out. 435 00:16:33,576 --> 00:16:35,493 Hers was just clasped in her hand. 436 00:16:35,494 --> 00:16:37,996 And when we re-examined Marcus Ford's corpse, 437 00:16:37,997 --> 00:16:41,374 the ME found one inserted into the heel of his left foot. 438 00:16:41,375 --> 00:16:43,084 Why? 439 00:16:43,085 --> 00:16:45,378 Did we mention that they were all minted in 1930? 440 00:16:45,379 --> 00:16:47,631 OK. Well, I just got goosebumps. 441 00:16:47,632 --> 00:16:49,841 Rich's autopsy also revealed that he had swallowed 442 00:16:49,842 --> 00:16:51,968 close to 50 pennies before he died. 443 00:16:51,969 --> 00:16:53,220 Gross. 444 00:16:53,221 --> 00:16:54,930 So at this point, was your theory-- 445 00:16:54,931 --> 00:16:56,806 I actually have no idea what their theory would have been. 446 00:16:56,807 --> 00:16:59,476 Yeah, well, I would tell you, but we were way off the mark, 447 00:16:59,477 --> 00:17:01,686 which we were about to discover 448 00:17:01,687 --> 00:17:04,481 when we got access to his cloud account. 449 00:17:04,482 --> 00:17:07,107 OK. 450 00:17:07,108 --> 00:17:09,693 I may have finally found it. 451 00:17:09,694 --> 00:17:12,447 I am so close to getting some real answers. 452 00:17:14,659 --> 00:17:16,786 See that? 453 00:17:30,591 --> 00:17:33,093 Oh, whoa. 454 00:17:33,094 --> 00:17:34,094 Ha! 455 00:17:36,097 --> 00:17:38,139 Oh, my God. No! No. 456 00:17:40,685 --> 00:17:43,103 For a guy pretending to be dead, 457 00:17:43,104 --> 00:17:44,980 breaking into a secure military facility 458 00:17:44,981 --> 00:17:47,023 doesn't seem like the best idea. 459 00:17:47,024 --> 00:17:50,694 Well, he wasn't just breaking into any military facility. 460 00:17:50,695 --> 00:17:52,153 It was Area 67. 461 00:17:52,154 --> 00:17:53,446 What does that mean? 462 00:17:53,447 --> 00:17:56,157 That's where the government keeps the aliens. 463 00:18:04,417 --> 00:18:05,292 So Rich broke into a secret government base 464 00:18:05,293 --> 00:18:07,168 on the hunt for a massive conspiracy, 465 00:18:07,169 --> 00:18:08,670 then stabbed himself in the chest? 466 00:18:08,671 --> 00:18:10,255 I mean, at that point, it's obvious what happened. 467 00:18:10,256 --> 00:18:12,173 - Is it? - Come on. 468 00:18:12,174 --> 00:18:14,259 Remember what Rich said right before he died? 469 00:18:14,260 --> 00:18:15,844 I can't die. 470 00:18:15,845 --> 00:18:16,803 It's inside of me. 471 00:18:16,804 --> 00:18:18,555 It won't let me die. 472 00:18:18,556 --> 00:18:19,973 Yeah, I'm not following. 473 00:18:19,974 --> 00:18:22,726 Rich was exposed to an alien parasite. 474 00:18:22,727 --> 00:18:25,270 It was inside him. 475 00:18:25,271 --> 00:18:27,814 Were you familiar with Area 67? 476 00:18:27,815 --> 00:18:29,607 I'd heard of it. Yeah. 477 00:18:29,608 --> 00:18:32,319 There's this AM radio station I used to listen to 478 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:33,945 back in Foxburg. 479 00:18:33,946 --> 00:18:35,572 Kept me awake when I was working late. 480 00:18:35,573 --> 00:18:38,408 The host was obsessed with UFOs. 481 00:18:38,409 --> 00:18:40,619 - "Val's Velvet Bunker"? - That's the one. 482 00:18:40,620 --> 00:18:43,913 He was a little bit out there, but always entertaining. 483 00:18:43,914 --> 00:18:47,292 Area 51 is theater. 484 00:18:47,293 --> 00:18:49,002 Do you believe? 485 00:18:49,003 --> 00:18:51,838 Do you really believe the most secretive 486 00:18:51,839 --> 00:18:54,466 military installation in the world would let itself 487 00:18:54,467 --> 00:18:56,468 become a tourist attraction? 488 00:18:56,469 --> 00:18:57,761 No, no, no, no. 489 00:18:57,762 --> 00:19:00,430 Area 51 is the distraction. 490 00:19:00,431 --> 00:19:03,391 Area 67 is the real deal. 491 00:19:03,392 --> 00:19:05,935 You know why California has all those earthquakes? 492 00:19:05,936 --> 00:19:08,688 It's not the San Andreas Fault, my friends. 493 00:19:08,689 --> 00:19:11,858 It's the sonic resonance from Area 67's 494 00:19:11,859 --> 00:19:13,693 underground testing chambers. 495 00:19:13,694 --> 00:19:15,612 Did you believe in his theories? 496 00:19:15,613 --> 00:19:17,030 No, no. 497 00:19:17,031 --> 00:19:18,823 Like I said, just entertainment. 498 00:19:18,824 --> 00:19:19,783 Let's hear from a caller. 499 00:19:19,784 --> 00:19:21,534 Hi, name's John. 500 00:19:21,535 --> 00:19:22,702 Longtime listener, fourth-time caller. 501 00:19:22,703 --> 00:19:25,372 Hey, John from Foxburg. Welcome back. 502 00:19:25,373 --> 00:19:26,498 What have you got for us tonight? 503 00:19:26,499 --> 00:19:29,085 I swear to God I just saw a UFO. 504 00:19:31,379 --> 00:19:34,464 John is such a common name. 505 00:19:34,465 --> 00:19:37,092 I'm open to the possibility of extraterrestrial life. 506 00:19:37,093 --> 00:19:38,385 - You are? - Yeah. 507 00:19:38,386 --> 00:19:40,011 I mean, it's a big universe. 508 00:19:40,012 --> 00:19:42,055 Anything could be out there. - I don't know. 509 00:19:42,056 --> 00:19:44,891 People who claim to have seen aliens tend to be a little off. 510 00:19:44,892 --> 00:19:46,684 You were friends with a corpse, right? 511 00:19:46,685 --> 00:19:48,061 Well, yeah, we were more than friends, 512 00:19:48,062 --> 00:19:49,688 but fair enough. OK. 513 00:19:49,689 --> 00:19:52,107 Legally, is it necrophilia 514 00:19:52,108 --> 00:19:53,691 if she only did over the clothes stuff? 515 00:19:53,692 --> 00:19:56,194 - That's a great question. - Oh, I definitely believe. 516 00:19:56,195 --> 00:19:57,987 In fact, 517 00:19:57,988 --> 00:20:00,240 I've been abducted by aliens. 518 00:20:00,241 --> 00:20:02,617 - Really? - Multiple times. 519 00:20:02,618 --> 00:20:06,037 Apparently, I'm a fascinating subject. 520 00:20:06,038 --> 00:20:09,249 I remember the last time Smitty was "abducted." 521 00:20:09,250 --> 00:20:10,917 Turns out he partied too hard in Vegas 522 00:20:10,918 --> 00:20:12,544 and woke up in Wisconsin. 523 00:20:12,545 --> 00:20:14,295 Missing time, 524 00:20:14,296 --> 00:20:17,257 one of the hallmarks of alien abductions. 525 00:20:17,258 --> 00:20:19,384 - And binge drinking. - Point is, 526 00:20:19,385 --> 00:20:22,053 the government had little gray men 527 00:20:22,054 --> 00:20:24,472 in their secret labs for decades. 528 00:20:24,473 --> 00:20:26,266 What are they doing with them? 529 00:20:26,267 --> 00:20:28,893 They're implanting the aliens in unsuspecting hosts 530 00:20:28,894 --> 00:20:30,520 and taking over their bodies. 531 00:20:30,521 --> 00:20:34,108 You just never know who might be one of them. 532 00:20:35,735 --> 00:20:38,611 Some people in the station believed Rich stabbed himself 533 00:20:38,612 --> 00:20:40,572 to kill an alien parasite, 534 00:20:40,573 --> 00:20:42,073 but I wouldn't say 535 00:20:42,074 --> 00:20:44,033 that was a dominant theory. 536 00:20:44,034 --> 00:20:45,577 It wasn't long before we figured out 537 00:20:45,578 --> 00:20:48,037 Rich believed something darker, 538 00:20:48,038 --> 00:20:50,457 and it was connected to the seven murders. 539 00:20:50,458 --> 00:20:52,083 Then why did Rich break into the army base? 540 00:20:52,084 --> 00:20:54,711 Yes, I remember the incident. 541 00:20:54,712 --> 00:20:56,171 Rich Rowley cut through a fence. 542 00:20:56,172 --> 00:20:58,339 He trespassed on government property. 543 00:20:58,340 --> 00:21:01,050 He was promptly apprehended and sent on his way. 544 00:21:01,051 --> 00:21:03,595 Do you have any idea what Rich was looking for? 545 00:21:03,596 --> 00:21:06,389 Uh, as it turns out, he was looking for me. 546 00:21:06,390 --> 00:21:09,601 But not because of any alleged aliens. 547 00:21:09,602 --> 00:21:12,020 So why did he come? 548 00:21:12,021 --> 00:21:14,981 Uh, this part is a-- 549 00:21:14,982 --> 00:21:17,692 is a little bit embarrassing. Um... 550 00:21:17,693 --> 00:21:19,986 before I found my calling in the military, 551 00:21:19,987 --> 00:21:22,739 I thought that I wanted to be an actor, 552 00:21:22,740 --> 00:21:25,700 and I was in a few DTV movies. 553 00:21:25,701 --> 00:21:26,826 What's DTV? 554 00:21:26,827 --> 00:21:27,952 You're so young. 555 00:21:27,953 --> 00:21:29,412 Uh, direct to video. 556 00:21:29,413 --> 00:21:31,748 They made all these super cheap movies 557 00:21:31,749 --> 00:21:33,541 back in the '80s and '90s. 558 00:21:33,542 --> 00:21:35,084 You make them as cheaply as possible 559 00:21:35,085 --> 00:21:37,128 and then hope that someone was drawn in enough 560 00:21:37,129 --> 00:21:39,547 by the cover art to rent them. 561 00:21:39,548 --> 00:21:42,133 - A guy can't have a side gig? - Totally. 562 00:21:42,134 --> 00:21:43,718 How did you get into acting? 563 00:21:43,719 --> 00:21:46,262 Some director scouted me when I pulled him over. 564 00:21:46,263 --> 00:21:49,057 He said I had a bitchin' bod. 565 00:21:49,058 --> 00:21:50,725 Well, he wasn't wrong. 566 00:21:50,726 --> 00:21:53,603 But I gave it up 'cause the people of this city 567 00:21:53,604 --> 00:21:55,688 needed a savior. - Mm. 568 00:21:55,689 --> 00:21:57,941 Yeah, you are the model of public service. 569 00:21:57,942 --> 00:21:59,776 Right. 570 00:21:59,777 --> 00:22:02,821 Anyway, Rich became interested in this terrible 571 00:22:02,822 --> 00:22:06,032 B movie that I was in. I played a monk. 572 00:22:06,033 --> 00:22:08,576 It was called "300 Days of Hell." 573 00:22:12,832 --> 00:22:14,707 Terrible B movie, that's what he called it? 574 00:22:14,708 --> 00:22:17,085 "300 Days of Hell" is the scariest film of the 1990s. 575 00:22:17,086 --> 00:22:18,670 Really? 576 00:22:18,671 --> 00:22:20,630 "The Ring", "Scream," "Blair Witch Project"? 577 00:22:20,631 --> 00:22:22,590 Which one of us executive produced a horror movie? 578 00:22:22,591 --> 00:22:24,843 Trust me, "THDOH" 579 00:22:24,844 --> 00:22:26,845 is true nightmare fuel. 580 00:22:26,846 --> 00:22:28,930 It's not that scary. 581 00:22:28,931 --> 00:22:31,474 She made me watch it at the beginning of our relationship. 582 00:22:31,475 --> 00:22:34,352 When he was still trying to impress me. 583 00:22:34,353 --> 00:22:36,479 You wanna watch it again tonight? 584 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,232 I would. Totally. 585 00:22:39,233 --> 00:22:42,235 I do have plans, though. 586 00:22:42,236 --> 00:22:43,820 Yeah I'm not watching that crap, 587 00:22:43,821 --> 00:22:45,530 even if it is for a case. 588 00:22:45,531 --> 00:22:47,782 I see enough horror on the job. 589 00:22:47,783 --> 00:22:50,827 That being said, "300 Days of Hell" 590 00:22:50,828 --> 00:22:52,829 was our first real window into the rabbit hole 591 00:22:52,830 --> 00:22:54,247 that Rich had gone down. 592 00:22:54,248 --> 00:22:55,790 A rabbit hole filled with demons-- 593 00:22:55,791 --> 00:22:58,710 or rather, a demon. 594 00:22:58,711 --> 00:23:00,420 So Rich believed a demon had killed all those people? 595 00:23:00,421 --> 00:23:02,130 No, the killers were definitely human. 596 00:23:02,131 --> 00:23:03,923 - Killers, plural? - Yeah. 597 00:23:03,924 --> 00:23:06,384 There was different trace DNA on all the bodies, 598 00:23:06,385 --> 00:23:08,511 all from different subjects, and none of them 599 00:23:08,512 --> 00:23:10,930 were in the system. - Meaning? 600 00:23:10,931 --> 00:23:12,181 The murders were committed by a group of people 601 00:23:12,182 --> 00:23:14,267 with shared beliefs. 602 00:23:14,268 --> 00:23:15,476 A murder cult? 603 00:23:15,477 --> 00:23:17,937 The cult believed a demon named Malaphus 604 00:23:17,938 --> 00:23:20,273 had been possessing people all across the city, 605 00:23:20,274 --> 00:23:24,235 jumping from host to host, and it was up to them to stop it. 606 00:23:32,786 --> 00:23:34,871 The legend of Malaphus is centuries old. 607 00:23:34,872 --> 00:23:38,082 The first mention we see of him is 1433's 608 00:23:38,083 --> 00:23:40,293 "Lesser Grimoire of Solomon" 609 00:23:40,294 --> 00:23:43,880 by Slovenian inquisitor Terentius Bruma, 610 00:23:43,881 --> 00:23:48,009 a reference text of demons and their attributes. 611 00:23:48,010 --> 00:23:50,136 - Gnarly. - Right? 612 00:23:50,137 --> 00:23:53,139 He's also known as the Deceiver, the Infestor, 613 00:23:53,140 --> 00:23:55,725 and Demon of 300 days. Why? 614 00:23:55,726 --> 00:23:58,061 Once summoned to Earth, Malaphus won't rest 615 00:23:58,062 --> 00:23:59,854 until he finds a human host. 616 00:23:59,855 --> 00:24:02,774 After possession begins, he incubates 617 00:24:02,775 --> 00:24:04,984 300 days. 618 00:24:04,985 --> 00:24:06,527 What happens after 300 days? 619 00:24:06,528 --> 00:24:08,321 He reaches full strength, 620 00:24:08,322 --> 00:24:11,616 and his power becomes uncontainable. 621 00:24:11,617 --> 00:24:12,993 Uh-oh. 622 00:24:14,370 --> 00:24:16,621 Um, if Malaphus was summoned to Earth, 623 00:24:16,622 --> 00:24:18,247 how would one stop him? 624 00:24:18,248 --> 00:24:21,626 Bruma suggests killing the host might slow Malaphus down, 625 00:24:21,627 --> 00:24:25,338 forcing him to regenerate before he can find a new host, 626 00:24:25,339 --> 00:24:28,132 a process that also can be slowed 627 00:24:28,133 --> 00:24:30,635 by the use of copper. 628 00:24:30,636 --> 00:24:33,304 - It was the pennies. - The pennies. 629 00:24:33,305 --> 00:24:34,847 It all came back to the pennies. 630 00:24:34,848 --> 00:24:38,434 Before 1984, U.S. pennies were 95% copper. 631 00:24:38,435 --> 00:24:40,979 So the copper in the pennies was meant to bind the demon, 632 00:24:40,980 --> 00:24:42,313 but what about the 1930 part? 633 00:24:42,314 --> 00:24:45,150 Uh, are you familiar with numerology? 634 00:24:46,694 --> 00:24:49,404 Some ancient peoples-- and Taylor Swift-- 635 00:24:49,405 --> 00:24:52,407 believed there was a mystical connection 636 00:24:52,408 --> 00:24:55,201 between letters and numbers. 637 00:24:55,202 --> 00:24:57,370 Using the Chaldean method, the name Malaphus 638 00:24:57,371 --> 00:24:59,455 becomes a digit, 1930. 639 00:24:59,456 --> 00:25:01,999 - So you're saying-- - We had a theory. 640 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,627 Whoever killed those people believed the victims 641 00:25:04,628 --> 00:25:06,796 were possessed by Malaphus. 642 00:25:06,797 --> 00:25:10,550 They had to reach Malaphus's host before 643 00:25:10,551 --> 00:25:12,260 he reached his true form. 644 00:25:12,261 --> 00:25:13,761 A 1930 penny was the perfect tool. 645 00:25:13,762 --> 00:25:16,347 Yeah, Rich's talk of, "it's inside me, 646 00:25:16,348 --> 00:25:18,683 it won't let me die," he thought he was infested 647 00:25:18,684 --> 00:25:20,101 by this demon, too, 648 00:25:20,102 --> 00:25:21,644 and that's why he killed himself. 649 00:25:21,645 --> 00:25:23,146 Wait. 650 00:25:23,147 --> 00:25:24,564 I thought Rich didn't believe in Malaphus. 651 00:25:24,565 --> 00:25:26,858 Isn't that why he was trying to stop the cult? 652 00:25:26,859 --> 00:25:29,110 Well, yes, but, I mean, years of obsession and paranoia 653 00:25:29,111 --> 00:25:31,070 can do a number on a person's psyche. 654 00:25:31,071 --> 00:25:32,196 I mean, it seems as though, in the end, 655 00:25:32,197 --> 00:25:33,865 Rich could no longer distinguish 656 00:25:33,866 --> 00:25:35,491 fantasy from reality. 657 00:25:35,492 --> 00:25:37,243 And you got this theory from Rich's files? 658 00:25:37,244 --> 00:25:39,287 Well, I mean, we actually got it from Lopez. 659 00:25:39,288 --> 00:25:41,873 And they say watching old horror movies 660 00:25:41,874 --> 00:25:44,167 isn't a good use of time. 661 00:25:44,168 --> 00:25:46,419 I never said that. 662 00:25:53,635 --> 00:25:55,845 Are we safe, brother? 663 00:25:55,846 --> 00:25:57,847 Is Malaphus banished? 664 00:25:57,848 --> 00:25:59,599 His sigil is drawn. 665 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,517 The rite is spoken. 666 00:26:01,518 --> 00:26:05,521 We have sealed his last human vessel with copper. 667 00:26:11,945 --> 00:26:13,738 Heaven forgive us. 668 00:26:13,739 --> 00:26:15,698 Indeed. 669 00:26:15,699 --> 00:26:17,742 For hell will not. 670 00:26:18,911 --> 00:26:21,120 Midnight, 671 00:26:21,121 --> 00:26:24,165 the 300th day. 672 00:26:24,166 --> 00:26:26,793 Our task was done none too soon. 673 00:26:53,070 --> 00:26:55,114 Yeah, that was me. 674 00:26:57,491 --> 00:26:59,283 Do you guys want a glass? - No, I'm good. 675 00:26:59,284 --> 00:27:01,786 Oh, you got anything stronger? 676 00:27:01,787 --> 00:27:04,330 Fine. I'll just take a glass. 677 00:27:04,331 --> 00:27:06,374 OK, I'll, just-- I'll have nothing, actually. 678 00:27:06,375 --> 00:27:08,167 No fun for me. 679 00:27:08,168 --> 00:27:11,963 Yeah, that was my first big movie role. 680 00:27:11,964 --> 00:27:15,633 Well, my only one, really. 681 00:27:15,634 --> 00:27:18,511 Rich was so excited when I told him I booked it. 682 00:27:18,512 --> 00:27:20,471 He helped me run lines. 683 00:27:20,472 --> 00:27:22,056 Did Rich buy in to the Malaphus mythology? 684 00:27:22,057 --> 00:27:23,724 No. 685 00:27:23,725 --> 00:27:25,726 Weirdly, given all the conspiracies that Rich 686 00:27:25,727 --> 00:27:28,896 believed in, he was a total atheist. 687 00:27:28,897 --> 00:27:30,815 But I wouldn't have blamed him after everything 688 00:27:30,816 --> 00:27:32,358 that happened on that shoot. 689 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,069 Like what? 690 00:27:35,362 --> 00:27:37,280 Before production wrapped, 691 00:27:37,281 --> 00:27:39,282 the DP was paralyzed driving to set. 692 00:27:39,283 --> 00:27:41,826 A stunt person had his leg amputated. 693 00:27:41,827 --> 00:27:43,703 There were divorces, bankruptcies. 694 00:27:43,704 --> 00:27:45,246 Careers ended. 695 00:27:45,247 --> 00:27:49,292 One of the actors even died in his hotel room. 696 00:27:49,293 --> 00:27:51,252 People say the production was cursed. 697 00:27:51,253 --> 00:27:53,671 What about you? What do you believe? 698 00:27:53,672 --> 00:27:57,967 I believe the real curse was the director. 699 00:27:57,968 --> 00:28:00,887 He was a reckless maniac that didn't know how to run a set. 700 00:28:00,888 --> 00:28:03,472 Cut. Cut! 701 00:28:03,473 --> 00:28:05,850 Arthur! Arthur! 702 00:28:05,851 --> 00:28:09,729 Your strangulation, it has to be real. 703 00:28:09,730 --> 00:28:11,898 I wanna feel the life draining from him. 704 00:28:11,899 --> 00:28:15,610 You, you--you cannot move from your position, 705 00:28:15,611 --> 00:28:17,320 Not even an inch. 706 00:28:17,321 --> 00:28:21,574 Guys, this ritual is extremely specific. 707 00:28:21,575 --> 00:28:23,659 OK? Let's go again. 708 00:28:23,660 --> 00:28:25,244 OK, I thought I was choking you pretty well. 709 00:28:25,245 --> 00:28:26,704 I'm sorry. 710 00:28:26,705 --> 00:28:27,538 OK, I'm gonna choke you a little harder. 711 00:28:27,539 --> 00:28:29,332 Ready? 712 00:28:29,333 --> 00:28:31,334 Douglas was real touchy about the religious stuff. 713 00:28:31,335 --> 00:28:33,628 I guess he had grown up in some sort of commune, 714 00:28:33,629 --> 00:28:36,547 and this was all based on stories he was told growing up. 715 00:28:36,548 --> 00:28:38,966 OK, but what I heard is that they accidentally 716 00:28:38,967 --> 00:28:40,885 summoned Malaphus for real. 717 00:28:40,886 --> 00:28:42,595 The director found some ancient tome 718 00:28:42,596 --> 00:28:45,973 and inserted the incantation and rituals verbatim. 719 00:28:45,974 --> 00:28:47,350 Ooh, I love that. 720 00:28:47,351 --> 00:28:48,851 And that's what got me thinking 721 00:28:48,852 --> 00:28:50,561 about the penny killings. 722 00:28:50,562 --> 00:28:53,481 We found the first victim just a little under 300 days 723 00:28:53,482 --> 00:28:55,524 after the summoning ritual was filmed. 724 00:28:55,525 --> 00:28:57,818 We knew Rich was aware of the Malaphus legends. 725 00:28:57,819 --> 00:28:59,737 It was only natural to link them. 726 00:28:59,738 --> 00:29:01,864 So Rich thought the penny victims were killed by people 727 00:29:01,865 --> 00:29:03,658 trying to stop Malaphus. 728 00:29:03,659 --> 00:29:05,952 Was he able to identify any of these killers? 729 00:29:05,953 --> 00:29:07,162 We know he tried. 730 00:29:08,538 --> 00:29:10,206 - Hi. - Hey. How are you? 731 00:29:10,207 --> 00:29:12,583 Jared. - Hello. Wow. 732 00:29:12,584 --> 00:29:15,211 Um, it's a--it's a pleasure to meet you, gentlemen. 733 00:29:15,212 --> 00:29:16,629 Pleasure to meet you too. 734 00:29:16,630 --> 00:29:18,130 Why don't you tell us about yourselves? 735 00:29:18,131 --> 00:29:22,760 Yeah, we, uh, co-starred on a TV show together 736 00:29:22,761 --> 00:29:25,137 for 15 seasons 737 00:29:25,138 --> 00:29:26,889 called "Supernatural." 738 00:29:26,890 --> 00:29:29,058 Yeah, we played Sam and Dean Winchester, 739 00:29:29,059 --> 00:29:32,895 brothers that, you know, tracked and fought 740 00:29:32,896 --> 00:29:34,855 supernatural beings. 741 00:29:34,856 --> 00:29:36,524 - Like "K-Pop Demon Hunters." - No. 742 00:29:36,525 --> 00:29:37,817 No, not like that. 743 00:29:37,818 --> 00:29:39,652 I mean, kind of like that. 744 00:29:39,653 --> 00:29:40,861 - No. - Yeah. 745 00:29:40,862 --> 00:29:43,197 OK, can you tell us about your encounter 746 00:29:43,198 --> 00:29:44,991 with Rich Rowley? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. 747 00:29:44,992 --> 00:29:46,701 Rich Rowley. 748 00:29:46,702 --> 00:29:51,372 He came to a fan event we did last year at MonsterCon. 749 00:29:51,373 --> 00:29:52,832 Yeah, you know, most people show up, 750 00:29:52,833 --> 00:29:57,044 and they just want an autograph or a photo. 751 00:29:57,045 --> 00:30:00,631 But Rich was a bit of a different beast altogether. 752 00:30:00,632 --> 00:30:02,842 Yeah, yeah, he was--he was super 753 00:30:02,843 --> 00:30:05,011 fixated on this one particular episode 754 00:30:05,012 --> 00:30:07,388 where we fought a demon. - Malaphus. 755 00:30:07,389 --> 00:30:09,557 Yeah, uh, that one. 756 00:30:09,558 --> 00:30:14,103 Anyway he seemed to think we, like, knew more 757 00:30:14,104 --> 00:30:15,938 about it than we were saying. 758 00:30:15,939 --> 00:30:16,689 More about what? 759 00:30:16,690 --> 00:30:18,566 Demon hunting. 760 00:30:18,567 --> 00:30:21,652 He kept, like, asking these super pointed questions, 761 00:30:21,653 --> 00:30:23,863 like--like he was, I don't know, 762 00:30:23,864 --> 00:30:25,031 testing us or something. 763 00:30:25,032 --> 00:30:27,241 - Did you have an answer? - No. 764 00:30:27,242 --> 00:30:28,534 No, I mean, we didn't-- 765 00:30:28,535 --> 00:30:30,161 we didn't come up with these stories. 766 00:30:30,162 --> 00:30:31,829 You know, we just did what the writers wrote. 767 00:30:31,830 --> 00:30:33,372 It's called acting. 768 00:30:33,373 --> 00:30:35,583 There's no actual demon hunters in real life. 769 00:30:35,584 --> 00:30:36,751 Exactly. 770 00:30:36,752 --> 00:30:38,669 Uh, that's not exactly true. 771 00:30:38,670 --> 00:30:40,838 There is at least one. 772 00:30:40,839 --> 00:30:44,675 And it actually connected to the movie. 773 00:30:44,676 --> 00:30:46,635 We heard the director brought a priest named 774 00:30:46,636 --> 00:30:48,679 Father Simon McCabe to bless the set 775 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,014 every day before filming. 776 00:30:50,015 --> 00:30:51,640 Well, it was either that or the whole crew 777 00:30:51,641 --> 00:30:53,225 was going to walk. 778 00:30:53,226 --> 00:30:56,354 Does that name mean anything to you? 779 00:30:56,355 --> 00:30:57,772 About 15 years ago. 780 00:30:57,773 --> 00:31:00,232 Lopez and I had just finished our rookie years. 781 00:31:00,233 --> 00:31:02,568 We responded to a call at a house. 782 00:31:02,569 --> 00:31:05,112 Priest doing an exorcism with a 16-year-old girl. 783 00:31:05,113 --> 00:31:06,238 Had been going on for three days. 784 00:31:06,239 --> 00:31:09,075 Father, no. 785 00:31:09,076 --> 00:31:11,827 Police! 786 00:31:11,828 --> 00:31:13,454 Help her! 787 00:31:13,455 --> 00:31:15,664 Please! 788 00:31:21,088 --> 00:31:24,465 Get away from her! 789 00:31:24,466 --> 00:31:28,219 Father, forgive me. 790 00:31:36,561 --> 00:31:37,728 Did you feel like you'd seen the devil? 791 00:31:37,729 --> 00:31:38,938 The only thing in that room that belonged in hell 792 00:31:38,939 --> 00:31:42,108 was Father Simon. - He kept saying he had to. 793 00:31:42,109 --> 00:31:44,443 The whole way to the station, "I'm sorry, I had to. 794 00:31:44,444 --> 00:31:45,945 I'm sorry, I had to." 795 00:31:45,946 --> 00:31:47,822 Because he believed she was possessed? 796 00:31:47,823 --> 00:31:49,323 She had a brain tumor. 797 00:31:49,324 --> 00:31:51,867 That's what they found after the autopsy. 798 00:31:51,868 --> 00:31:53,911 She needed a doctor, not an exorcism. 799 00:31:53,912 --> 00:31:56,413 And he wasn't a man of God. He was a killer. 800 00:31:56,414 --> 00:31:58,124 The courts agreed. 801 00:31:58,125 --> 00:32:01,043 So Father Simon was convicted of first-degree murder. 802 00:32:01,044 --> 00:32:03,504 When we processed him, we found a penny in his pocket. 803 00:32:03,505 --> 00:32:05,089 Nothing else, just a penny. 804 00:32:05,090 --> 00:32:06,423 It didn't mean anything at the time, 805 00:32:06,424 --> 00:32:08,467 but after Rich connected those seven murders, 806 00:32:08,468 --> 00:32:10,386 it seemed likely he was involved. 807 00:32:10,387 --> 00:32:12,304 Involved like, he killed them? 808 00:32:12,305 --> 00:32:14,807 No, Simon was already in prison when five 809 00:32:14,808 --> 00:32:17,268 of the murders took place, and his DNA didn't match 810 00:32:17,269 --> 00:32:19,311 any that was found on the corpses. 811 00:32:19,312 --> 00:32:21,480 But he could have been part of whatever group 812 00:32:21,481 --> 00:32:23,357 Rich was so afraid of. 813 00:32:23,358 --> 00:32:25,609 Which means he knew more than he had told us. 814 00:32:25,610 --> 00:32:27,987 So we had to go back. 815 00:32:27,988 --> 00:32:30,781 Officers, I remember you. 816 00:32:30,782 --> 00:32:32,616 You--you were the ones who tried to stop the ritual. 817 00:32:32,617 --> 00:32:34,368 Just wish we would have gotten here sooner. 818 00:32:34,369 --> 00:32:35,911 Becca Scott might still be alive. 819 00:32:35,912 --> 00:32:38,372 Oh, she was long gone before you arrived. 820 00:32:38,373 --> 00:32:40,791 The demon saw to that. - Malaphus? 821 00:32:40,792 --> 00:32:42,376 Shh. 822 00:32:42,377 --> 00:32:44,670 Do not say its name in my presence. 823 00:32:44,671 --> 00:32:47,590 What, are you afraid we might accidentally summon it? 824 00:32:47,591 --> 00:32:50,301 You may scorn me and my beliefs, 825 00:32:50,302 --> 00:32:52,178 but I have fought this evil. 826 00:32:52,179 --> 00:32:54,346 I know enough to fear its power. 827 00:32:54,347 --> 00:32:56,891 What's more evil than murdering a child? 828 00:32:56,892 --> 00:32:59,351 I took no pleasure in the act. 829 00:32:59,352 --> 00:33:01,061 I'm grateful I had the courage to do what was necessary. 830 00:33:01,062 --> 00:33:02,646 Courage? 831 00:33:02,647 --> 00:33:05,232 Tell us about the penny that was in your pocket. 832 00:33:05,233 --> 00:33:07,234 In the movie "300 Days of Hell", 833 00:33:07,235 --> 00:33:09,320 Malaphus is sealed inside his host with copper 834 00:33:09,321 --> 00:33:11,030 before he can be killed-- 835 00:33:11,031 --> 00:33:13,115 Uh, banished, not killed. 836 00:33:13,116 --> 00:33:14,867 What's the difference? 837 00:33:14,868 --> 00:33:18,037 The demon is a parasite. 838 00:33:18,038 --> 00:33:19,580 It needs a host. 839 00:33:19,581 --> 00:33:21,373 Once you kill the body that inhabits it, 840 00:33:21,374 --> 00:33:23,209 it'll find a new one. 841 00:33:23,210 --> 00:33:27,046 Becca Scott was just a single battle in a larger war. 842 00:33:27,047 --> 00:33:31,383 If you're in here, who's doing the fighting now? 843 00:33:31,384 --> 00:33:33,677 The Knights of Avila. 844 00:33:33,678 --> 00:33:35,679 Los Angeles has a long history 845 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,265 of spiritualism, esoteric religions 846 00:33:38,266 --> 00:33:39,850 that go back over 100 years. 847 00:33:39,851 --> 00:33:42,728 So think Aleister Crowley, Jack Parsons, 848 00:33:42,729 --> 00:33:44,730 L. Ron Hubbard. - He freaking loves this stuff. 849 00:33:44,731 --> 00:33:46,315 I do. 850 00:33:46,316 --> 00:33:48,275 Anyway, a lot of these groups started out 851 00:33:48,276 --> 00:33:50,986 as fraternal orders, similar to the Freemasons, 852 00:33:50,987 --> 00:33:52,947 where people would gather and--and--share-- 853 00:33:52,948 --> 00:33:54,240 - Men. - Well, yeah. 854 00:33:54,241 --> 00:33:56,700 Yes, and-- and some women. 855 00:33:56,701 --> 00:33:59,828 And they would share new ideas, explore philosophies. 856 00:33:59,829 --> 00:34:02,915 They also liked partying, doing drugs, 857 00:34:02,916 --> 00:34:05,501 and performing weird sex rituals. 858 00:34:05,502 --> 00:34:08,128 Sign me up. 859 00:34:08,129 --> 00:34:11,506 For the intellectual exchanging of ideas, obviously. 860 00:34:11,507 --> 00:34:12,925 So the Knights of Avila is one of these groups? 861 00:34:12,926 --> 00:34:14,677 It was. 862 00:34:14,678 --> 00:34:16,303 Like a lot of the similar organizations at the time, 863 00:34:16,304 --> 00:34:17,846 it fell apart when the founder died. 864 00:34:17,847 --> 00:34:18,930 It hasn't been active in-- 865 00:34:18,931 --> 00:34:20,640 60 years? 866 00:34:20,641 --> 00:34:22,560 Then what was Father Simon talking about? 867 00:34:22,561 --> 00:34:25,562 Based on Tim and Lopez's conversation with Father Simon, 868 00:34:25,563 --> 00:34:27,398 we began to believe that the group, 869 00:34:27,399 --> 00:34:29,858 or at least the name, 870 00:34:29,859 --> 00:34:32,361 had been revived sometime in the late '90s 871 00:34:32,362 --> 00:34:35,238 to the early 2000s and re-branded 872 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,158 as some kind of demon hunting cult. 873 00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:40,494 So Rich was actually right. 874 00:34:40,495 --> 00:34:42,663 There was a murderous cabal after him. 875 00:34:42,664 --> 00:34:43,955 It seemed that way, 876 00:34:43,956 --> 00:34:46,082 and we were getting close 877 00:34:46,083 --> 00:34:48,294 to discovering who their ringleader was. 878 00:34:48,295 --> 00:34:51,213 I found him. 879 00:34:51,214 --> 00:34:53,465 - Found who? - Doug Roberts. 880 00:34:53,466 --> 00:34:55,509 I wanna feel the life draining from him! 881 00:34:55,510 --> 00:34:57,136 Oh, you mean the director of the sad little demon porn? 882 00:34:57,137 --> 00:34:58,512 Where? 883 00:34:58,513 --> 00:35:00,097 I was going through some old industry trades 884 00:35:00,098 --> 00:35:02,641 from around the time "THDOH" was slated to come out. 885 00:35:02,642 --> 00:35:04,852 One of the articles mentioned that Roberts 886 00:35:04,853 --> 00:35:06,020 was a client of Stewart Winecliff 887 00:35:06,021 --> 00:35:07,646 at the Golden Talent Agency. 888 00:35:07,647 --> 00:35:09,273 The guy hasn't made a movie in 26 years. 889 00:35:09,274 --> 00:35:10,566 I doubt they still rep him. 890 00:35:10,567 --> 00:35:12,526 Not actively, no. 891 00:35:12,527 --> 00:35:14,403 But I called their offices, and I bribed-- 892 00:35:14,404 --> 00:35:16,572 or like, I talked one of the assistants into giving me 893 00:35:16,573 --> 00:35:18,282 the address where his residual checks are sent. 894 00:35:18,283 --> 00:35:19,867 It's downtown. Let's go. 895 00:35:19,868 --> 00:35:21,577 Uh, hold on. 896 00:35:21,578 --> 00:35:23,037 You just wanna go doorstep the guy? 897 00:35:23,038 --> 00:35:24,288 If that means go knock on a door 898 00:35:24,289 --> 00:35:25,914 while also filming, then yes. 899 00:35:25,915 --> 00:35:28,125 Yeah, I'm not in the business of gotcha journalism. 900 00:35:28,126 --> 00:35:31,211 What about the business of making that paper? 901 00:35:31,212 --> 00:35:32,713 The guap? 902 00:35:32,714 --> 00:35:34,590 Money, guy. 903 00:35:34,591 --> 00:35:36,842 Come on, the doc business is over-saturated these days. 904 00:35:36,843 --> 00:35:39,386 We need footage that P-O-Ps, 905 00:35:39,387 --> 00:35:40,846 and what pops more than blindsiding 906 00:35:40,847 --> 00:35:43,349 a potential cult leader? 907 00:35:43,350 --> 00:35:44,391 Come on. 908 00:35:44,392 --> 00:35:46,018 What's the worst that could happen? 909 00:35:47,562 --> 00:35:50,189 This is it. - OK. 910 00:35:50,190 --> 00:35:52,024 Um, here. Here's your camera. 911 00:35:52,025 --> 00:35:53,901 Um, I don't operate. 912 00:35:53,902 --> 00:35:54,985 Oh, well. 913 00:35:57,781 --> 00:36:01,325 Now, you do. 914 00:36:01,326 --> 00:36:03,619 Let's go. 915 00:36:03,620 --> 00:36:06,205 - What floor is it on? - Eight. 916 00:36:06,206 --> 00:36:08,624 But there's an elevator. Don't worry. 917 00:36:14,506 --> 00:36:17,675 - Are you sure it's that way? - Yep. 918 00:36:17,676 --> 00:36:19,301 Nope. 919 00:36:19,302 --> 00:36:22,721 You know, at the risk of being called a scaredy cat, 920 00:36:22,722 --> 00:36:24,723 you do understand that this is inherently 921 00:36:24,724 --> 00:36:27,267 neither a wise nor safe activity? 922 00:36:27,268 --> 00:36:29,478 You're asking a woman if she understands 923 00:36:29,479 --> 00:36:33,107 that it's inherently dangerous to go anywhere or do anything? 924 00:36:33,108 --> 00:36:35,984 When you put it that way, I sound like an ass. 925 00:36:35,985 --> 00:36:37,069 Yeah. 926 00:36:39,697 --> 00:36:41,240 Maybe we should come back? 927 00:36:41,241 --> 00:36:43,659 Hey. Hello. 928 00:36:43,660 --> 00:36:45,411 Douglas Roberts, we're here to question you 929 00:36:45,412 --> 00:36:47,621 about murders and demons. 930 00:36:47,622 --> 00:36:49,873 That should get his attention. 931 00:36:49,874 --> 00:36:51,500 Oh. 932 00:36:51,501 --> 00:36:53,878 I am just an intern. 933 00:36:58,758 --> 00:37:02,344 So clearly we're not deceased, which means-- 934 00:37:02,345 --> 00:37:03,929 We saved you from certain death. 935 00:37:03,930 --> 00:37:05,347 I'm not sure how certain it was, right? 936 00:37:05,348 --> 00:37:06,974 Oh, it felt pretty certain to me. 937 00:37:06,975 --> 00:37:08,392 Please don't kill us. 938 00:37:08,393 --> 00:37:09,893 We will join your cult. Is there a membership fee 939 00:37:09,894 --> 00:37:11,520 or a secret handshake? 940 00:37:11,521 --> 00:37:12,771 I love a secret handshake. - Ignore her. 941 00:37:12,772 --> 00:37:14,273 She's not right in the head. 942 00:37:14,274 --> 00:37:16,066 In fact, she has short-term memory issues. 943 00:37:16,067 --> 00:37:17,860 So if you let her go now, she won't remember any of this. 944 00:37:17,861 --> 00:37:19,653 Just shut up. No one's going anywhere. 945 00:37:19,654 --> 00:37:20,904 I mean, technically, we're all going somewhere. 946 00:37:25,493 --> 00:37:27,911 All right, let them go. Put your hands up. 947 00:37:27,912 --> 00:37:31,540 Up against the Jeep, now. Let's go. 948 00:37:36,337 --> 00:37:38,589 Oh, hey. 949 00:37:38,590 --> 00:37:41,175 Thanks for trying to save me, even though 950 00:37:41,176 --> 00:37:42,968 I'm the one who put us in danger. 951 00:37:42,969 --> 00:37:44,678 No problem. 952 00:37:44,679 --> 00:37:46,680 I was about to do the same thing, but you just 953 00:37:46,681 --> 00:37:48,223 beat me to it. 954 00:37:48,224 --> 00:37:50,434 I can be noble, too. - No doubt. 955 00:37:50,435 --> 00:37:52,644 Uh, I get very claustrophobic. 956 00:37:52,645 --> 00:37:54,730 Can I just point out how claustrophobic I get, please? 957 00:37:54,731 --> 00:37:57,149 So when did you and Douglas meet? 958 00:37:57,150 --> 00:37:58,484 In the movie. 959 00:37:58,485 --> 00:38:02,237 He was, you know, so commanding and driven 960 00:38:02,238 --> 00:38:04,114 and everything I wasn't. 961 00:38:04,115 --> 00:38:06,283 When did he start talking about killing the demon? 962 00:38:06,284 --> 00:38:08,577 It was, uh, at least a year after that. 963 00:38:08,578 --> 00:38:11,246 He would call me late at night 964 00:38:11,247 --> 00:38:13,332 and talk about the demon and how scared 965 00:38:13,333 --> 00:38:14,875 he was for the world, 966 00:38:14,876 --> 00:38:17,503 and eventually it started to make sense. 967 00:38:17,504 --> 00:38:20,672 And he told you that someone was possessed? 968 00:38:20,673 --> 00:38:22,633 Correct. Her name was Cynthia. 969 00:38:22,634 --> 00:38:24,301 Um, 970 00:38:24,302 --> 00:38:27,179 she cried when I tied her up, and she kept saying 971 00:38:27,180 --> 00:38:29,598 that she was not a demon. 972 00:38:29,599 --> 00:38:31,392 She begged me to believe her, and-- 973 00:38:35,605 --> 00:38:38,816 At that point, he was very deep in my head. 974 00:38:38,817 --> 00:38:41,235 And then tonight, you know, all the lies 975 00:38:41,236 --> 00:38:43,403 he was spewing at the end, 976 00:38:43,404 --> 00:38:45,239 it was like somebody turned on a light switch. 977 00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:47,866 I could just see him for who he was. 978 00:38:47,867 --> 00:38:49,452 So pathetic. 979 00:38:52,455 --> 00:38:54,999 We'll need you to write up a detailed confession. 980 00:38:59,712 --> 00:39:01,464 I would like to make a deal. 981 00:39:03,174 --> 00:39:05,759 Uh, we have already located your co-conspirators. 982 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,929 You don't really have anything to offer. 983 00:39:08,930 --> 00:39:12,057 You don't want to know what an alien spaceship looks like? 984 00:39:13,726 --> 00:39:17,479 I am all that stands between the world 985 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,064 and damnation. 986 00:39:19,065 --> 00:39:20,941 So all of the people that you had targeted, 987 00:39:20,942 --> 00:39:24,736 they had to die for the greater good? 988 00:39:24,737 --> 00:39:28,490 Yes, and my heart breaks for each of them. 989 00:39:28,491 --> 00:39:31,535 But I will not let innocents fall to perdition. 990 00:39:31,536 --> 00:39:33,662 OK, have you had your fill of BS? 991 00:39:33,663 --> 00:39:34,830 God, yes. 992 00:39:34,831 --> 00:39:35,914 OK, me, too. 993 00:39:35,915 --> 00:39:40,294 So, uh, first victim, Cynthia Green. 994 00:39:40,295 --> 00:39:42,546 You dated for two years before she cheated on you. 995 00:39:42,547 --> 00:39:45,507 Marcus Ford, he worked as a teamster on your movie, 996 00:39:45,508 --> 00:39:48,302 then later sued you for nonpayment. 997 00:39:48,303 --> 00:39:52,556 Pamela Jones wrote a scathing review of your movie. 998 00:39:52,557 --> 00:39:53,724 Really? I-- 999 00:39:53,725 --> 00:39:55,809 I had no idea. 1000 00:39:55,810 --> 00:39:59,187 All seven victims were people who wronged you in some way. 1001 00:39:59,188 --> 00:40:01,064 You don't even believe in the demon. 1002 00:40:01,065 --> 00:40:03,108 You just used it as a tool to get people with weak minds 1003 00:40:03,109 --> 00:40:04,986 to do your dirty work for you. 1004 00:40:07,113 --> 00:40:08,906 Exactly. 1005 00:40:08,907 --> 00:40:10,532 I was the director. 1006 00:40:10,533 --> 00:40:12,826 I think you'll find I never laid a finger 1007 00:40:12,827 --> 00:40:14,661 on any of the victims. 1008 00:40:14,662 --> 00:40:18,123 And I think you will find that Manson died in prison. 1009 00:40:20,293 --> 00:40:21,835 All right. 1010 00:40:21,836 --> 00:40:23,337 Uh, anything else? 1011 00:40:23,338 --> 00:40:25,255 No, I think we got everything. 1012 00:40:25,256 --> 00:40:27,382 OK. 1013 00:40:27,383 --> 00:40:29,718 That was a crazy one, huh? - Tell me about it. 1014 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:31,887 And look, thanks so much for all of your time, 1015 00:40:31,888 --> 00:40:33,513 and for saving our lives. 1016 00:40:33,514 --> 00:40:35,057 Anything for my favorite documentarian. 1017 00:40:35,058 --> 00:40:36,350 Actually, the only documentarian I know. 1018 00:40:36,351 --> 00:40:37,434 Not true. 1019 00:40:37,435 --> 00:40:39,645 I'm a documentarian too. - Of course. 1020 00:40:39,646 --> 00:40:42,522 Yes--oh, speaking of, how did this whole 1021 00:40:42,523 --> 00:40:44,524 working together thing go? 1022 00:40:44,525 --> 00:40:46,777 Is this the start of a beautiful friendship? 1023 00:40:46,778 --> 00:40:48,487 I don't know. 1024 00:40:48,488 --> 00:40:50,197 I mean, we have very different styles 1025 00:40:50,198 --> 00:40:52,699 and instincts and, well, basically everything, 1026 00:40:52,700 --> 00:40:55,161 but I'd be open to another collaboration. 1027 00:40:57,330 --> 00:41:00,415 Oh, um, it's just I-- 1028 00:41:00,416 --> 00:41:03,543 I kind of signed an exclusive three-film deal with Hulu? 1029 00:41:03,544 --> 00:41:05,629 What? 1030 00:41:05,630 --> 00:41:07,381 Yeah, I--I sent them a sizzle reel of this project, 1031 00:41:07,382 --> 00:41:10,258 just the me parts, and they freaked. 1032 00:41:10,259 --> 00:41:11,968 Said I'm gonna be "the new face of true crime." 1033 00:41:11,969 --> 00:41:13,553 Their words. - Wow. 1034 00:41:13,554 --> 00:41:15,931 I mean, you'd probably be able to bring him along, 1035 00:41:15,932 --> 00:41:16,974 though, right? 1036 00:41:16,975 --> 00:41:19,893 Oh, totally. Totally. 1037 00:41:21,771 --> 00:41:25,482 I gotta go, but thanks again. Hello. 1038 00:41:25,483 --> 00:41:28,151 No, I said Toronto and then Cannes. 1039 00:41:30,113 --> 00:41:32,114 She'll probably call you. 1040 00:41:32,115 --> 00:41:33,115 No. 1041 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:12,196 Damn it.